__This re-posting discussion from LinkedIn is in the purpose of only to facilitate learning the aspect of mathematics education; and does not mean as business. (Marsigit)__
Docent vakdidactiek wiskunde at
Hogeschool van Arnhem en Nijmegen

What do you mean with flawlessly.
For me there is a difference between still making mistakes even when given
enough time to think on the one hand and not being fast enough on the other
hand.

If speed is the problem, then I would not worry too much. Especially if the child understands the math. 1 second loss in memorizing the tables is compensated by minutes of gain by knowing how to solve a problem.

If a child gives the wrong answers even when given enough time to think, that would be a good reason to check where this is coming from. Then there could be something that is a reason not to transfer him/her to the next grade. But then the time tables are not the main reason. In this situation there are probably a lot of other reasons.

If speed is the problem, then I would not worry too much. Especially if the child understands the math. 1 second loss in memorizing the tables is compensated by minutes of gain by knowing how to solve a problem.

If a child gives the wrong answers even when given enough time to think, that would be a good reason to check where this is coming from. Then there could be something that is a reason not to transfer him/her to the next grade. But then the time tables are not the main reason. In this situation there are probably a lot of other reasons.

Mehtamatics = mathematics with a
difference

I agree with Geeke. I consider
myself to be very good with my tables - to the 30 times table. But very
occasionally I slip up with, say, the 23 times table. So I am not flawless.
Maybe I should still be in grade 4 instead of having done a degree (and more)
in mathematics.

Second, in the UK it is policy to transfer children up irrespective of their mastery of the earlier level. In my view that is flawed, but holding the pupil back is unacceptable.

Second, in the UK it is policy to transfer children up irrespective of their mastery of the earlier level. In my view that is flawed, but holding the pupil back is unacceptable.

teacher of mathematics

Geeke, under "flawlessly"
I mean being able to quickly, correctly and repeatedly answer questions from
any tables group in any sequence at any time. Also students should learn to use
the memorized multiplication facts in practice. If a student finds it difficult
to carry out any computations that include multiplication facts, then he/she
has not mastered the times tables totally.

Anand, a very interesting
standpoint. Thus it is necessary to define "flawlessly" more
carefully. And are you totally sure that holding pupils back is unacceptable? .

Docent vakdidactiek wiskunde at
Hogeschool van Arnhem en Nijmegen

I consider myself also good with my
tables. I have a master degree in mathematics, but I know I still
"calculate" 7 x 8 and 6 x7. I do think I know them by heart, but
don't trust myself with the answer. I found that I am not the only one with a
master degree in math. I also found, when I was practising with my daughter,
that my speed is not constant.

I saw children that have the same: they check their answers even when doing a tables test. A main reason to not be fast enough. Another reason for being slower can be that your 'thoughts' do not transfer as fast to writing. So there is a problem in the speed of the output channel; i.e. reading, knowing the answer, and then writing it down

The big question is: how fast should you be?

Reasoning from cognitive load, you don't want them to have extra load by not knowing their tables, but that does not mean that you have to meet a strict time limit.

I agree with Anand that it is unacceptable to hold these pupils back.

I would even want to go further. Is it acceptable to hold gifted pupils (that are not fast enough on their tables) back from more conceptual mathematical work (for gifted students) until they do master the tables at the right speed?

I saw children that have the same: they check their answers even when doing a tables test. A main reason to not be fast enough. Another reason for being slower can be that your 'thoughts' do not transfer as fast to writing. So there is a problem in the speed of the output channel; i.e. reading, knowing the answer, and then writing it down

The big question is: how fast should you be?

Reasoning from cognitive load, you don't want them to have extra load by not knowing their tables, but that does not mean that you have to meet a strict time limit.

I agree with Anand that it is unacceptable to hold these pupils back.

I would even want to go further. Is it acceptable to hold gifted pupils (that are not fast enough on their tables) back from more conceptual mathematical work (for gifted students) until they do master the tables at the right speed?

Mehtamatics = mathematics with a
difference

Holding pupils back presents a whole
lot of issues and my responses to them are not the same.

In the UK it is government policy not to hold back. It is unacceptable in the sense that it is disallowed - whatever the merits or demerits! School year is strictly linked to chronological age. I know one set of parents who had to formally appeal for the due date of their severely premature child be used rather than the actual date of birth! But more generally, I do not see how a child can be working with processes and concepts at a higher level when they have not mastered the same subject at a more basic level.

Having said that, I have some comments on holding pupils back. What do you do with a child who is able in some subjects but not in others? Do they need to be held back in their grade for some subjects but move forward in others? If so, the school becomes a very complex organisation - with children in different grades for different subjects. Educationally this may be good but I would not like to try to timetable that school!

It is important to understand why the Grade 4 child has not mastered their tables. Will repeating the grade simply bore them to distraction? In that case they may not learn anything more and may be a disruptive influence on others in the classroom.

Children do not learn linearly. They go through learning spurts and then plateau while consolidating their newly acquired knowledge. During this period they may even regress a bit. Then the next spurt kicks in, and so on. A Grade 4 child could be at a point just prior to a spurt, in which case holding them back a year might not be appropriate.

I did my schooling in India where holding back was perfectly acceptable and I had a few classmates that were repeating - one even spent three years in one form! They did become bored, switched off and sometimes disruptive as a result. Targeted support may have helped but then that raises the question about money!

Sorry, no answers here - only more complications!

In the UK it is government policy not to hold back. It is unacceptable in the sense that it is disallowed - whatever the merits or demerits! School year is strictly linked to chronological age. I know one set of parents who had to formally appeal for the due date of their severely premature child be used rather than the actual date of birth! But more generally, I do not see how a child can be working with processes and concepts at a higher level when they have not mastered the same subject at a more basic level.

Having said that, I have some comments on holding pupils back. What do you do with a child who is able in some subjects but not in others? Do they need to be held back in their grade for some subjects but move forward in others? If so, the school becomes a very complex organisation - with children in different grades for different subjects. Educationally this may be good but I would not like to try to timetable that school!

It is important to understand why the Grade 4 child has not mastered their tables. Will repeating the grade simply bore them to distraction? In that case they may not learn anything more and may be a disruptive influence on others in the classroom.

Children do not learn linearly. They go through learning spurts and then plateau while consolidating their newly acquired knowledge. During this period they may even regress a bit. Then the next spurt kicks in, and so on. A Grade 4 child could be at a point just prior to a spurt, in which case holding them back a year might not be appropriate.

I did my schooling in India where holding back was perfectly acceptable and I had a few classmates that were repeating - one even spent three years in one form! They did become bored, switched off and sometimes disruptive as a result. Targeted support may have helped but then that raises the question about money!

Sorry, no answers here - only more complications!

Lecturer at Yogyakarta State
University

Victor, this idea seems that there
is a powerful adult (you) to try to justify partially something about your
belief (time tables) to work for a less powerful children. "Knowing the
times tables" has many psychological aspects. We need also to clarify
about the meaning of "knowing" and "times tables". For a
certain context, this idea seems awkward; so I am striving to understand it.

teacher of mathematics

Marsigit, I can only repeat once
more what I mean with "knowing flawlessly" - being able to quickly,
correctly and repeatedly answer questions from any tables group in any sequence
at any time. Also students should learn to use the memorized multiplication
facts in practice. If a student finds it difficult to carry out any
computations that include multiplication facts, then he/she has not mastered
the times tables totally.

Classroom Teacher, University Tutor

Holding them back is both a stick
and a stigma. While I totally agree with the need for accurate, rapid recall of
number facts as a tool for enabling a student's performance in higher order
tasks, the focus needs to be on the benefits of this recall as demonstrated
through practice, rather than a gateway task for progression from one point to
the next with peers.

Mehtamatics = mathematics with a
difference

While I agree that holding pupils
back is a stick and stigma, I think that a lot depends on the culture. I do not
think that pupils that were held back at my school were stigmatised by their
peers: it was usually good to have older kids on your sports teams! Also,
anecdotally, a few years back, the son of a French friend of mine wanted to be
held back because his best friend was being held back. Stigma? Their friendship
seemed far more important!

teacher of mathematics

Scarce preliminary results of the
first week (11 groups, 40 votes):

Yes - 24 (60%)

No - 16 (40%)

Why are there so few votes? Dear colleagues, what's the matter? Maybe, the question is not interesting or something else. I cannot understand.

Yes - 24 (60%)

No - 16 (40%)

Why are there so few votes? Dear colleagues, what's the matter? Maybe, the question is not interesting or something else. I cannot understand.

--

I think we need to disaggregate
several issues here.

The first one is the concept of 'holding back' because a child has not learned something which they should have. This is a complex issue -- for instance, should a child who has learned everything else, but has just barely failed the 'flawless' criterion -- be held back? Is the industrial assembly line batch-processing method the best, or the best-we-can-do-with-current-resources, model for education? I won't try to answer these questions, except to say that I think that technology is slowly preparing the ground for a much more individually-oriented method of education, which won't require the current proceed-in-a-group method.

The second issue is: how important is it that children know their times tables as flawlessly as Victor thinks they should? I personally think it is very important. But, of course, it is not impossible for exceptional individuals who are unable to learn them, still to do well in mathematics. But hard cases, as the lawyers say, make bad law. There are individuals who can climb to the top of Mount Everest, without additional oxygen, and still live. But most people who try this will die. And children who don't know their times tables are, for the most part, dead mathematically.

The third issue is, how hard is it for children to learn their times tables? Something might be important to do, but also very difficult. But in this case, happily, no such dilemma faces us. Learning your times tables by heart is easy, IF THE SCHOOL IS ORGANIZED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. The school leadership -- not the mathematics teacher -- must arrange it so that all children chant the times tables in unison for a few minutes every morning, and perhaps at other times during the day. There are other ways to keep the tables prominent -- 7 x 8 posters, 9 x 6 post-it notes in the loo, etc. The human brain is designed to make hundreds of thousands of such associations.

If children don't know their times tables, it's not their fault, it's the fault of the people who are supposed to be leading in their education.

There are a couple of dozen other 'know-by-heart' reflexive strings of words that children should know, in order to flourish in pure and applied mathematics. (The definition of a ratio, the definition of pi, how to recognize a perfect quadratic square ["rooty-toot-toot, twice the square roots"], how to deduce sin, cos and tan for a 30-60-90 triangle ["hee, hee, hee, one, two and the square root of three"] and they're easy to learn, if done right, and so helpful. These can be combined with certain basic visualisations [e.g. the "Magic Triangle" for products/quotients, applicable to so many formulae in physics] and small changes in notation (consistently using the 'raise to a fractional power' notation instead of the obsolete root sign), to make mathematics so much easier. The routine becomes easy so our brains can concentrate on the real difficulties.

I don't understand why the educational leaders have abandoned these useful techniques. I whole-heartedly approve of learning for understanding (as opposed to meaningless rote learning), and of learning how to solve problems, not just do 'fill in the blanks' routine problems. But having a few dozen associations of (meaningful) words off by heart is so very helpful in reducing 'cognitive load' as someone called it. Why don't we do it?

The first one is the concept of 'holding back' because a child has not learned something which they should have. This is a complex issue -- for instance, should a child who has learned everything else, but has just barely failed the 'flawless' criterion -- be held back? Is the industrial assembly line batch-processing method the best, or the best-we-can-do-with-current-resources, model for education? I won't try to answer these questions, except to say that I think that technology is slowly preparing the ground for a much more individually-oriented method of education, which won't require the current proceed-in-a-group method.

The second issue is: how important is it that children know their times tables as flawlessly as Victor thinks they should? I personally think it is very important. But, of course, it is not impossible for exceptional individuals who are unable to learn them, still to do well in mathematics. But hard cases, as the lawyers say, make bad law. There are individuals who can climb to the top of Mount Everest, without additional oxygen, and still live. But most people who try this will die. And children who don't know their times tables are, for the most part, dead mathematically.

The third issue is, how hard is it for children to learn their times tables? Something might be important to do, but also very difficult. But in this case, happily, no such dilemma faces us. Learning your times tables by heart is easy, IF THE SCHOOL IS ORGANIZED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. The school leadership -- not the mathematics teacher -- must arrange it so that all children chant the times tables in unison for a few minutes every morning, and perhaps at other times during the day. There are other ways to keep the tables prominent -- 7 x 8 posters, 9 x 6 post-it notes in the loo, etc. The human brain is designed to make hundreds of thousands of such associations.

If children don't know their times tables, it's not their fault, it's the fault of the people who are supposed to be leading in their education.

There are a couple of dozen other 'know-by-heart' reflexive strings of words that children should know, in order to flourish in pure and applied mathematics. (The definition of a ratio, the definition of pi, how to recognize a perfect quadratic square ["rooty-toot-toot, twice the square roots"], how to deduce sin, cos and tan for a 30-60-90 triangle ["hee, hee, hee, one, two and the square root of three"] and they're easy to learn, if done right, and so helpful. These can be combined with certain basic visualisations [e.g. the "Magic Triangle" for products/quotients, applicable to so many formulae in physics] and small changes in notation (consistently using the 'raise to a fractional power' notation instead of the obsolete root sign), to make mathematics so much easier. The routine becomes easy so our brains can concentrate on the real difficulties.

I don't understand why the educational leaders have abandoned these useful techniques. I whole-heartedly approve of learning for understanding (as opposed to meaningless rote learning), and of learning how to solve problems, not just do 'fill in the blanks' routine problems. But having a few dozen associations of (meaningful) words off by heart is so very helpful in reducing 'cognitive load' as someone called it. Why don't we do it?

Associate Director of RSM-MetroWest

The question seems to miss an
important point. Some students memorize times tables, but do not understand
what they are doing. It is the same as memorizing the words to a favorite song.
Others may conceptually understand the math, and take longer to complete a
test, but still are fundamentally more advanced than their memorizing peers. I
teach 5 and 6 year old kids whose parents have"taught" them that 100
x 10 = 1000. That doesn't mean they are ready for 5th grade. They still cannot
understand much simpler multiplication, although they have memorized impressive
sounding facts.

--

Memorizing, and understanding, must
not be counterposed to each other. They are (at least somewhat) complementary.
Just memorizing a string of sounds is pointless. For instance, the
multiplication tables must be learned at the same time as visualizations of
multiplication (six rows of seven things each, etc), and applications of them
involving not just simple multiplications, but factoring and division, to help
children become fluent with numbers: Twenty boxes with ten candies each in
them, were opened and all the candies put into a bowl, and the candies then
shared out equally among fifty children... how many did each child get?

A child who cannot quickly work out that twenty times ten is two hundred, and that two hundred divided by fifty is four, will be dead in the water on a problem like this. It's possible in theory that they could work out in principle how to solve it ... say, using the Singapore Model Method, in which you draw the appropriate bars ... but in practice I'll bet they won't.

And I'm always suspicious when I am told that children can solve a problem "in principle", because it invariably reminds me of an old Soviet joke, which Victor will no doubt know, whose punch-line is, "Where is this wonderful shop, 'Principle', which has everything you are out of here?"

A child who cannot quickly work out that twenty times ten is two hundred, and that two hundred divided by fifty is four, will be dead in the water on a problem like this. It's possible in theory that they could work out in principle how to solve it ... say, using the Singapore Model Method, in which you draw the appropriate bars ... but in practice I'll bet they won't.

And I'm always suspicious when I am told that children can solve a problem "in principle", because it invariably reminds me of an old Soviet joke, which Victor will no doubt know, whose punch-line is, "Where is this wonderful shop, 'Principle', which has everything you are out of here?"

teacher of mathematics

Doug, thanks for making me smile :)

Math department chair at Seabuy Hall

I was just informed that the DOE in
HI no longer teaches the multiplication facts, nor long division. We are just
starting to see these students in high school. They are lost, and the simplest
of equations becomes monumental to solve.

Now what?

Now what?

Mehtamatics = mathematics with a
difference

Sean, it makes me so mad when
politicians and bureaucrats make such decisions. Do they not realise that they
are blighting the lives of a whole generation of children? I admit that, as a
private tutor, I benefit from such incompetent decisions but I would rather
that today's youngsters and tomorrow's adults were able mathematicians than to
make money from their misfortune.

Classroom Teacher, University Tutor

We are teaching these basic skills
in junior secondary because so many students have come to us not knowing basic
facts or operations. My perception is that it has become worse so our
orientation includes teaching formal setting out of algorithms and we have
implemented a 2 year plan to improve speed and breadth of recall of number
facts.

It appears that some people have set their focus as understanding, a concept that none of us would disagree with. Unfortunately the focus on achievement of standards and levels has been lost. Instead of students achieving levels and milestones through targeted mastery work, they are becoming consumed with elaborate, alternative algorithms designed to show understanding. These elaborations become far more complicated than traditional approaches and fail to utilise the inherent power of place value. They seem to have forgotten that students can have "fun with facts", and that increasing their skills and knowledge develops satisfaction with the subject and enhanced self-efficacy. When students feel like this they stop saying they hate Maths and feel confident to take on new challenges and topics.

It appears that some people have set their focus as understanding, a concept that none of us would disagree with. Unfortunately the focus on achievement of standards and levels has been lost. Instead of students achieving levels and milestones through targeted mastery work, they are becoming consumed with elaborate, alternative algorithms designed to show understanding. These elaborations become far more complicated than traditional approaches and fail to utilise the inherent power of place value. They seem to have forgotten that students can have "fun with facts", and that increasing their skills and knowledge develops satisfaction with the subject and enhanced self-efficacy. When students feel like this they stop saying they hate Maths and feel confident to take on new challenges and topics.

Teacher of Chemistry at CARTERET
PUBLIC SCHOOLS

Schoolhouse Rock was created in the
early 1970's because the United States Government had made the decision that
all students should be able to calculate up to the 12 Time Tables by the 4th
grade. This was back when we called standardised test the "Iowa." I
found it invaluable for myself. ABC would run the vignettes at the end of their
Saturday Morning cartoon lineup because they knew that kids would be watching.
When I had my own child, I bought the DVDs so that he would learn his times
tables as well, plus a subscription to Brain Pop and the Encyclopaedia
Britannica online [I had a set of them on my bookshelves when I was kid and did
many a report using them]. Somewhere between the 1970s and Today, the public
got it in their head that we don't need Schoolhouse Rock anymore or we have
forgotten how to help our children find reliable reference sources on the
Internet, much like we had to get help from our parents to get to the Public
Library and find sources for reading and reports. Now, the United States is
reaping what we have failed to sow and we are, hopefully, realising we need to
actually have our children be competent in calculations and knowledge. My
personal belief is that if we employ the our resources correctly, and that is a
big "if" unfortunately, we can have a child held back not to
stigmatise but to ensure they get more knowledge. Of course that requires work
and support from school administrators and those of us teaching in the United
States realise I have just written an oxymoron. Until that time, I have my own
resources that I will utilise in my classroom, mostly because I see positive
results that have very positive impacts on my students and the is truly our
bottom line.

teacher of mathematics

The voting process perked up, and
that's what we have for today (11 groups, 159 votes):

Yes - 103 (64.8%)

No - 56 (35.2%)

Yes - 103 (64.8%)

No - 56 (35.2%)

Education/Volunteer Coordinator at
SciWorks

Having been a Math teacher in
Elementary and in Middle Grades, I got to see first hand what happens when
students do not know the multiplication table. However it does not stop there;
the NCLB program forces promotion as schools are pressured to keep retention to
a minimum.

Basic math skills (add, subtract, multiply, divide) are necessary skills for Science; Social Studies, Art and more. But let us not forget, if the child cannot read the problem and perform the task, we as educators have failed that child.

It is inexpensive to incorporate practice of basic math as well as basic language arts daily. It can be done with 3rd-7th graders as long as it is presented in the proper manner for their learning style.

I constantly reminded my student, regardless of the grade, they use math and science as well as reading daily. They just weren't aware of it. Personally I like the way a few schools are changing from graded classes (K-8) to go to the class for your level. That covers advanced learners, average who fall in the cracks, and more challenged learners. Data shows, which is how they were able to justify the change to the school board, this type of learning as well as utilizing a "Flipped Classroom" let the students work at a pace in which they can understand and actually learn-not memorize. Learning is stored in those filing cabinets in your long term memory. Memorizing is in the short term memory or equivalent to storing it in recycle bin.

Victor, great question!

Basic math skills (add, subtract, multiply, divide) are necessary skills for Science; Social Studies, Art and more. But let us not forget, if the child cannot read the problem and perform the task, we as educators have failed that child.

It is inexpensive to incorporate practice of basic math as well as basic language arts daily. It can be done with 3rd-7th graders as long as it is presented in the proper manner for their learning style.

I constantly reminded my student, regardless of the grade, they use math and science as well as reading daily. They just weren't aware of it. Personally I like the way a few schools are changing from graded classes (K-8) to go to the class for your level. That covers advanced learners, average who fall in the cracks, and more challenged learners. Data shows, which is how they were able to justify the change to the school board, this type of learning as well as utilizing a "Flipped Classroom" let the students work at a pace in which they can understand and actually learn-not memorize. Learning is stored in those filing cabinets in your long term memory. Memorizing is in the short term memory or equivalent to storing it in recycle bin.

Victor, great question!

Classroom Teacher, University Tutor

Memorising in the context of
learning/understanding is meaningful and useful and this is why it stores so
well.

Lecturer at Yogyakarta State
University

The role of intuition can probably
be considered and be examined in learning arithmetic including numbers
operations.

teacher of mathematics

The results of the poll at the point
(11 groups, 205 votes):

Yes - 131 (63.9%)

No - 74 (36.1%)

And some interesting "yes" comments:

“I still don't know my times tables flawlessly, but I have advanced degrees and am successful at what I do.”

“Probably all but the single yes voter think it is a silly question. Can anyone think of a reason it might be inappropriate?”

“Too important of an impact to a child's life to have this one factor be the only consideration. Why would this even be a question?”

“Would you really hold a child back because she hasn't learned the basic multiplication facts? That's very disturbing. Here's a radical idea: how about teaching her instead of punishing her?”

“Are you kidding? This is the only skill lacking? Resounding, yes! No child should be retained solely because memorization of multiplication facts are lacking. If that were the case, most children would be retained.”

“Of course! How many adults don't know their "tables"? That's what tech is for. We are not all good memorizers! Many of these learners are really gifted and creative. Let's get with the 21st century!”

Yes - 131 (63.9%)

No - 74 (36.1%)

And some interesting "yes" comments:

“I still don't know my times tables flawlessly, but I have advanced degrees and am successful at what I do.”

“Probably all but the single yes voter think it is a silly question. Can anyone think of a reason it might be inappropriate?”

“Too important of an impact to a child's life to have this one factor be the only consideration. Why would this even be a question?”

“Would you really hold a child back because she hasn't learned the basic multiplication facts? That's very disturbing. Here's a radical idea: how about teaching her instead of punishing her?”

“Are you kidding? This is the only skill lacking? Resounding, yes! No child should be retained solely because memorization of multiplication facts are lacking. If that were the case, most children would be retained.”

“Of course! How many adults don't know their "tables"? That's what tech is for. We are not all good memorizers! Many of these learners are really gifted and creative. Let's get with the 21st century!”

Mehtamatics = mathematics with a
difference

OK. I am going to play Devil's
advocate:

Hold the child back and transfer the child's teachers (Grade 4 and earlier) to other profession. Are they blameless? What evidence is there to validate their blamelessness?

Hold the child back and transfer the child's teachers (Grade 4 and earlier) to other profession. Are they blameless? What evidence is there to validate their blamelessness?

Biologist/Botanist/Writer/Consultant/Founding
Editor at Science Literacy & Education focused read-about-it.blogspot.com

NCLB for me: "No child left
behind, every child left behind." I have seen what happens when students
get pushed through without getting to learn what they need. They get into
college with A grades, thinking they are smart, then fail out of college the
first semester. Then, they really feel like failures...Better to get the basics
as children. I have taught kindergarten through university. I have seen the
result of NCLB at many levels.

I was a child of the, "New Math" era so I learned to multiply and divide in base 2, 8, and 16 faster than in base 10. When I took chemistry at the university level, I learned that I'd better learn the times tables by rote if I wanted a chance to do chemistry. I did and passed chemistry and loved it. If I didn't learn the times tables, I could not have done that.

I encourage students to learn the times tables to 20 and squares and cubes as well. Many have come back to me and said what a help that was.

In some cities, where children and their families change schools often because of economic reasons, math is taught so the same math item is being taught on the same day in all the city schools. The result of that practice is that many students don't have time enough to learn the material before they move on to the next topic. A student might be taking calculus who can't multiply 2 x 2 without a calculator and not understand the calculator's answer.

I am a science teacher who realized I'd better learn to teach math (reading, and writing) within the science class if I wanted people to be able to pass the basic biology class. You can't understand pH without an understanding of exponents, for example. Understanding surface area in biochemical reactions in the body is impossible unless you can calculate area and volume. These calculations require comprehending multiplication and division. Without great math skills people die. A slipped decimal can result in a medicine a factor of 10 too strong. Try that with a heart medicine and you are dead.

Want another field than medicine? Look at engineering and building collapses.

It is not that hard to learn the times tables. Parents can teach their children these as a game, for example. Teachers are not to blame. I thought they were, so, I left university teaching to go back to high school teaching and then junior high teaching. I learned the teachers do teach. Children come to school hungry. Children come to school after working all night to support their families. Children come to school with no homework done because of home factors. Children come to school after dodging drunk parents all night. Teachers' hands are tied....they can't visit families, or give after school penalties in many places because of laws. It is wrong to blame the teachers, many of whom spend their own money to get things to help students learn. Another factor affecting students' learning is the number of deaths they face in their communities. Or, the number of parents abandoning them. Or, the number of parents going to jail. Or, the lack of hope. Or, the trip through the drug lands to get to school. Or, an infinite number of reasons they don't learn that have nothing to do with the teacher.

Students need hope. They need to believe in themselves. They need a safe place to learn and a caring home. Oh, and heat...It is hard to study when you are cold. We need to believe in them. We need to convey that we believe in them. A safe environment... If we build it, they will learn (the times tables and much more!).

The children at the Boys' and Girls' Club where I volunteer learned the times tables, squares, and cubes in less than a week when they realized it was fun and they could do homework faster and thus play sooner... Notice their parents, though working, had the children in a safe, warm environment after school.

A thought from my father: No one graduated from one room school house without knowing the times tables.

I was a child of the, "New Math" era so I learned to multiply and divide in base 2, 8, and 16 faster than in base 10. When I took chemistry at the university level, I learned that I'd better learn the times tables by rote if I wanted a chance to do chemistry. I did and passed chemistry and loved it. If I didn't learn the times tables, I could not have done that.

I encourage students to learn the times tables to 20 and squares and cubes as well. Many have come back to me and said what a help that was.

In some cities, where children and their families change schools often because of economic reasons, math is taught so the same math item is being taught on the same day in all the city schools. The result of that practice is that many students don't have time enough to learn the material before they move on to the next topic. A student might be taking calculus who can't multiply 2 x 2 without a calculator and not understand the calculator's answer.

I am a science teacher who realized I'd better learn to teach math (reading, and writing) within the science class if I wanted people to be able to pass the basic biology class. You can't understand pH without an understanding of exponents, for example. Understanding surface area in biochemical reactions in the body is impossible unless you can calculate area and volume. These calculations require comprehending multiplication and division. Without great math skills people die. A slipped decimal can result in a medicine a factor of 10 too strong. Try that with a heart medicine and you are dead.

Want another field than medicine? Look at engineering and building collapses.

It is not that hard to learn the times tables. Parents can teach their children these as a game, for example. Teachers are not to blame. I thought they were, so, I left university teaching to go back to high school teaching and then junior high teaching. I learned the teachers do teach. Children come to school hungry. Children come to school after working all night to support their families. Children come to school with no homework done because of home factors. Children come to school after dodging drunk parents all night. Teachers' hands are tied....they can't visit families, or give after school penalties in many places because of laws. It is wrong to blame the teachers, many of whom spend their own money to get things to help students learn. Another factor affecting students' learning is the number of deaths they face in their communities. Or, the number of parents abandoning them. Or, the number of parents going to jail. Or, the lack of hope. Or, the trip through the drug lands to get to school. Or, an infinite number of reasons they don't learn that have nothing to do with the teacher.

Students need hope. They need to believe in themselves. They need a safe place to learn and a caring home. Oh, and heat...It is hard to study when you are cold. We need to believe in them. We need to convey that we believe in them. A safe environment... If we build it, they will learn (the times tables and much more!).

The children at the Boys' and Girls' Club where I volunteer learned the times tables, squares, and cubes in less than a week when they realized it was fun and they could do homework faster and thus play sooner... Notice their parents, though working, had the children in a safe, warm environment after school.

A thought from my father: No one graduated from one room school house without knowing the times tables.

Lecturer at Yogyakarta State
University

From Victor Guskov: "Know the
Times Tables flawlessly: being able to quickly, correctly and repeatedly answer
questions from any tables group in any sequence at any time"

I am just interested with and then try to collected the emerging related notions with Times Tables in this discussion as follows:

“still making mistakes with times tables, understands times tables, loss in memorizing the tables, memorizing the tables, wrong answers , enough time to think times tables, where this times tables coming from, very good with my times tables, slip up with times tables, carry out any computations that include multiplication facts, mastered the times tables totally, good with times tables, think times tables by heart, doing a times tables test, transfer as fast to writing, not fast enough on their tables, do master the tables at the right speed, visualizations of multiplication, fluent with numbers, work out that twenty times, long term memory, learn the times tables by rote, times tables as a game”.

Thank's

I am just interested with and then try to collected the emerging related notions with Times Tables in this discussion as follows:

“still making mistakes with times tables, understands times tables, loss in memorizing the tables, memorizing the tables, wrong answers , enough time to think times tables, where this times tables coming from, very good with my times tables, slip up with times tables, carry out any computations that include multiplication facts, mastered the times tables totally, good with times tables, think times tables by heart, doing a times tables test, transfer as fast to writing, not fast enough on their tables, do master the tables at the right speed, visualizations of multiplication, fluent with numbers, work out that twenty times, long term memory, learn the times tables by rote, times tables as a game”.

Thank's

Atin Argianti

ReplyDelete18709251001

PPs PM A 2018

Berdasarkan artikel tersebut, saya sedikit memahami bahwa siswa mempunyai kemapuan dalam belajar matematika yang beragam. Dalam pembelajaran matematika, guru harus tahu kemampuan awal yang dimiliki siswanya. Guru dapat memberikan apersepsi agar siswanya memiliki satu pemikiran yang sama dengan konsep. Karena keberagaman siswa tersebut akan muncul kendala. Sehingga guru harus lebih bersabar dengan keberagaman siswanya dan tidak memaksakan untuk menyamakannya.

Rindang Maaris Aadzaar

ReplyDelete18709251024

S2 Pendidikan Matematika 2018

Assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

Berdasarkan percakapan diatas, saya sependapat dengan pendapat yang dikemukakan oleh Geeke Bruin-Muurling yaitu tentang siswa yang tidak dapat menggunakan times tables atau tabel perkalian dengan baik, maka siswa tersebut tidak perlu tidak naik grade selanjutnya.

Berikut pernyataan dari Geeke Bruin-Muurling yang mengatakan, "Then there could be something that is a reason not to transfer him/her to the next grade. But then the time tables are not the main reason. In this situation there are probably a lot of other reasons." Saya sangat sependapat dengan penyataan tersebut karena menurut saya, perkalian seharusnya tidak menjadi bahan untuk menghafal. Perkalian tidak harus menggunakan tabel perkalian tapi bisa saja menggunakan jarimatika dan yang lainnya. Hal ini tergantung dari bagaimana guru bisa menanamkan konsep pada siswa sehingga siswa tidak cenderung menghafal.

Wassalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

Amalia Nur Rachman

ReplyDelete18709251042

S2 Pendidikan Matematika B UNY 2018

Dalam artikel di atas, diungkapkan bahwa terdapat suatu permasalahan pada siswa kelas empat yang belum mampu menguasai operasi perkalian secara baik dan lancar untuk nantinya diputuskan naik kelas atau tidak layak naik kelas. Saya sependapat dengan geeke Bruin Muurling, siswa yang belum mampu dalam materi dasar prasyarat tidak sepatutnya dinaikkan kelas/ level begitu saja. Jika siswa terus dimasukkan dalam kelas setingkat di atasnya, siswa akan merasa kerepotan dalam mengikuti pembelajaran berikutnya. Operasi hitung dasar harus benar benar dikuasai oleh siswa, guru harus menyakinkan hal tersebut. Ketika menemukan kasus tersebut, guru dapat mengambil porsi yang lebih dalam pengajaran ekstra untuk menuntaskan keterampilan dasar tersebut.

Bayuk Nusantara Kr.J.T

ReplyDelete18701261006

PEP S3

Saya mengutip pendapat dari artikel di atas yaitu: "If a child gives the wrong answers even when given enough time to think, that would be a good reason to check where this is coming from". Saya setuju bahwa terkadang guru tidak bisa membedakan antara kecepatan dalam menjawab atau siswa benar-benar tidak memahami materi tersebut. Oleh karena itu, guru lebih baik melakukan observasi terhadap proses pembelajaran sehingga mengetahui apakah siswa benar-benar tidak mengerti atau hanya kekurangan waktu dalam menjawab.

Dini Arrum Putri

ReplyDelete18709251003

S2 P Math A 2018

Kemampun awal itu sangat perlu dan sangat penting untuk dimiliki oleh setiap siswa dalam pembelajaran khususnya pada matematika. contohnya jika siswa mendapat materi tentang perkalian , ia harus paham terlebih dahulu tentang penjumlahan, jika siswa mendapat materi tentang pembagian, ia harus paham terlebih dahulu pula tentang apa itu penjumahan, pengurangan dan perkalian. Matematika pun juga saling berkaitan dengan materinya, sehingga kemampuan awal siswa dalam memahami konsep matematika sangatlah penting, jika siswa tidak memahami konsepnya maka ia akan gagal dalam menyelesaikan masalah.

Aizza Zakkiyatul Fathin

ReplyDelete18709251014

Pps Pendidikan Matematika A

Dalam postingan ini berbicara mengenai ketika siswa tidaka menguasai table perkalian apa pantas untuk dinaikan ke kelas berikut nya atau tidak?. Menurut Saya perkalian adalah operasi dasar dalam matematika. Sehingga menjadi prasyarat bagi siswa untuk materi matematika berikutnya. Ketika siswa tidak menguasai perkalian maka akan sulit bagi dia belajar materi berikutnya. Oleh karena itu saya setuju dengan pendapar Bruin Muurling yaitu siswa tidak dinaikan ketika belum memahami perkalian.

Yoga Prasetya

ReplyDelete18709251011

S2 Pendidikan Matematika UNY 2018 A

Setiap siswa memiliki kemampuan daya serap otak yang berbeda-beda dalam proses pembelajaran. Tidak semua siswa mampu menerima semua materi yang diberikan, karena setiap siswa memiliki gaya belajar berbeda-beda. Setiap siswa memiliki permasalahan dalam memahami matematika baik itu perkalian, pembagian maupun materi yang membutuhkan olah pikir. Sebagai calon pendidik hendaknya kita harus mengetahui kemampuan dan daya serap anak agar proses pembelajaran dapat berjalan dengan baik.

Elsa Apriska

ReplyDelete18709251005

S2 PM A 2018

Tulisan di atas mempertanyakan ketika seorang siswa tidak menguasai tabel perkalian apakah ia dapat dinaikan ke kelas selanjutnya. Hal ini tentu perlu pertimbangan dari berbagai aspek. Perkalian merupakan salah satu operasi utama dalam matematika, ketika seorang siswa tidak menguasai perkalian maka sangat besar kemungkinan ia akan kesulitan untuk materi-materi selanjutnya. Namun perlu diihat oleh guru apa yang menjadi kesulitan bagi siswa ini. Karena seperti yang kita ketahui bahwa konsep perkalian berasal dari penjumlahan berulang. Maka perlu dilihat bagaimana pemahaman si murid mengenai penjumlahan berulang.

Hasmiwati

ReplyDelete18709251023

S2 Pend.Matematika B 2018

Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.

Siswa SD memang harusnya bisa paham akan konsep matematika yang sedang dipelajari karena akan berdampak kepada pembelajaran selanjutnya, khususnya matematika yang memang materinya berkesinambungan. Jika memang siswa belum menguasai/belum paham akan materi dasar, dalam hal ini adalah perkalian dasar, guru harusnya bisa menggali lebih jauh apa yang menyebabkan itu terjadi. Dengan demikian, guru bisa mengambil langkah yang terbaik untuk bisa memperbaikinya.

Fabri Hidayatullah

ReplyDelete18709251028

S2 Pendidikan Matematika B 2018

Terdapat berbagai permasalahan di dalam pendidikan matematika. Salah satunya ialah seperti yang diungkapkan dalam diskusi tersebut. Bahkan hal ini masih sering terjadi di banyak siswa SMP. Menurut diskusi tersebut, kita perlu meninjau terlebih dahulu berbagai aspek psikologinya. Setiap anak memiliki perkembangan psikologi yang berbeda. Ini dipengaruhi oleh berbagai hal, bisa dari lingkungannya maupun dari proses pembelajaran di kelas. Namun, secara umum anak-anak berada di dalam ranah konkret. Sementara tabel perkalian merupakan konsep yang cukup abstrak. Maka alangkah baiknya bila guru tidak terlalu menuntut siswa untuk dapat melakukannya. Guru perlu membangun konsep pada anak melalui hal-hal yang bersifat konkret sehingga anak-anak dapat melakukan abstraksi sesuai dengan kemampuannya.

Cahya Mar'a Saliha Sumantri

ReplyDelete18709251034

S2 Pendidikan Matematika B

Assalamualaikum wr.wb.

Berdasarkan hasil diskusi di atas, saya setuju dengan pendapat Geeke Bruin-Muurling yang mangatakan bahwa bila siswa mempunyai masalah dalam menjawab permasalahan matematika meskipun diberikan waktu untuk berpikir, pasti ada alasan yang bagus mengapa itu terjadi dan di mana letak kesalahan mereka yang mungkin saja saat memberikan ilmu mereka tidak menerimanya atau mereka memang tidak terkoneksi saat menyimak pelajaran, sehingga ada alasan mengapa mereka naik atau tidak naik ke jenjang berkutnya. Oleh karena itu tabel perkalian bukannya alasan utama mereka naik tidak naik tingkat. Karena memang tabel perkalian bisa diajarkan secara berkelanjutan dan bisa diajarkan saat sebelum ujian dilaksanakan dan saat ujian bisa jadi yang dikeluarkan sebagai soal-soalnya adalah perkalian yang familiar dengan mereka sehingga bisa dikerjakan. Bila hanya berpatokan pada tabel perkalian maka tidak termasuk faktor penentu naik tidaknya anak ke tingkat berikutnya. Bisa jadi karena perilaku, absensi, tugas yang tidak dikerjakan, dll.

Sintha Sih Dewanti

ReplyDelete18701261013

PPs S3 PEP UNY

Membaca tulisan di atas, muncul pertanyaan “Benarkah anak harus menghafal tabel (misalnya tabel perkalian?”. Menurut saya, angka adalah hal yang paling abstrak di dunia ini. Itulah sebabnya untuk mempelajari matematika, perlu dikuatkan terlebih dahulu pemahaman terhadap konsep perkalian sebagai penjumlahan yang berulang. Sekedar menghafalkan saja tanpa paham tentu bukan cara efektif untuk belajar. Pemahaman perkalian bisa dikenalkan sejak usia dini sampai kelas 2 SD. Jadi menurut saya lebih penting memahamkan konsep daripada menghafal tabel.

sintha fardu anggraeni

ReplyDelete19709251071

S2 pend matematika/D/ 2019

terimakasih bapak Prof Marsigit. bagi saya ini adalah masalah yang kompleks. Jika kita memindahkannya ke tingkat berikutnya, akan sulit baginya untuk mengikuti pelajaran topik berikutnya yang membutuhkan keterampilan berhitung cepat, meskipun menggunakan kalkulator masih dilarang dalam pendidikan kita. Tetapi jika menggunakan kalkulator atau alat-alat serupa diperbolehkan, saya pikir tidak masalah jika kita membiarkannya naik ke level berikutnya, selama dia mengerti bagaimana cara menghitung dan bagaimana menggunakan konsep dan prinsip penghitungan.

Jewish Van Septriwanto

ReplyDeleteS2 Pendidikan Matematika D 2019

19709251077

Tulisan diatas menunjukkan bahwa karakter siswa dalam memahami matematika beragam, ada yang cepat dan dikategorikan kurang cepat dalam belajar. Dalam mengatasi hal tersebut diperlukan kemampuan guru dalam memahami hal tersebut, artinya guru tidak boleh memaksakan siswa dalam memahami secara bersamaan guru dapat memberikan soal-soal tambahan dan materi tambahan bagi siswa.

Assalamu'alaykum wr wb

ReplyDeleteDwi Kawuryani

19709251061

Pendidikan Matematika S2 D

Berdasarkan percakapan di atas saya sependapat dengan pendapat yang dikemukakan oleh Geeke Bruin Muurling yaitu tentang siswa yang tidak dapat menggunakan times table atau tabel perkalian dengan baik maka siswa tersebut tidak perlu tidak naik grade selanjutnya. Untuk selanjutnya bawa dalam pembelajaran perkalian siswa tidak seharusnya hanya menggunakan time tables tetapi ada banyak metode yang bisa digunakan untuk siswa dapat memahami konsep perkalian. beberapa cara yang dapat digunakan untuk membantu siswa memahami time tables seperti yang dijelaskan oleh Bapak Prof. Dr. Marsigit. Tugas kita sebagai guru adalah untuk memahami proses-proses tersebut dan kemudian digunakan untuk membantu siswa. Oleh karena itu kita harus senantiasa belajar tentang metode-metode tersebut.

Wassalamu'alaikum wr wb

Vera Yuli Erviana

ReplyDeleteNIM 19706261005

S3 Pendidikan Dasar 2019

Assalamualaikum Wr. Wb.

Berdasarkan artikel yang telah tersaji, dapat dipahami bahwa siswa mempunyai kemampuan dalam belajar matematika yang beragam sesuai juga gaya belajar siswa tersebut. Disini peran guru harus mengetahui kemampuan awal yang dimiliki oleh siswanya dalam mengembangkan pembelajaran matematika ini dan harus dituntut sabar dalam mengelola pembelajaran matematika.

WAssalamualaikum Wr. Wb.

Latifa Krisna Ayu

ReplyDelete19709251060

S2 Pendidikan Matematika D

Tabel perkalian merupakan salah satu cara yang dapat digunakan agar siswa memahami kosep perkalian. Namun kita tidak bisa menilai kemampuan perkalian siswa hanya dengan melihat kemampuan siswa mengerjakan tabel perkalian. Jadi, saya rasa guru perlu mencari cara lain selain tabel perkalian untuk membantu meningkatkan kemampuan perkalian siswa. Setiap siswa memiliki kemampuan yang berbeda, sehingga tentunya akan ada siswa yang membutuhkan waktu lebih lama untuk memahami perkalian dan mengerjakan soal operasi perkalian. Selain itu, perkalian memang merupakan konsep dasar yang sangat penting dalam matematika, namun untuk memutuskan apakah seorang siswa dapat naik tingkat(level) atau tidak tidak dapat hanya berdasarkan kemampuan perkaliannya saja.

Terima kasih

Tiara Wahyu Anggraini

ReplyDelete19709251065

S2 Pendidikan Matematika D 2019

Terima kasih pak Prof, dialog tersebut sangat menarik. Banyak sekali pembahasan mengenai kesulitan dalam pembelajaran. Menurut saya, seorang anak yang mengalami kesulitan dalam dalam pembelajaran itu merupakan sebuah tantangan untuk guru. Mengapa? Karena dengan hal tersebut guru dapat melakukan intropeksi diri tentang pembelajaran yang dilaksanakan, bagaimana menyelenggarakan pembelajaran yang cocok bagi siswa dimana setiap siswa memiliki karakter yang beragam. Dan sebagai guru harus menyadari bahwa setiap anak memiliki bakat dan kemampuan yang berbeda. Seperti untuk menguasai tabel perkalian maka anak membutuhkan waktu yang berbeda pula untuk menguasai dengan sempurna.